Hubert von Goisern
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Sunday Interview: Hubert von Goisern is on tour again

Neue Vorarlberger Tageszeitung 18th March 2001 | Text: Chantal Dorn

In his luggage: loud new songs except for Heast as Nit.
"It is honest music if I also stand behind it".

Hubert Achleitner alias Hubert von Goisern becomes a talking point again after a six year break. NEUE talks to him about the Alpinkatzen, Hiatamadl and his current project.

Do you have the feeling that people still want to reduce you to Hiatamadl?

In the last 15 concerts that we have played, I have only been spoken to about it twice. That shows that people are interested in what I am doing and not in what I have done.

You like to experiment. Your appearance in America with the Alpinkatzen is an example. Was that actually a musical experiment or did you really want to make a breakthrough with dialect songs?

It was already clear to me that we had no chance of gaining a foothold commercially. There are far too many artists who want to do that. It is rather proof for me of bringing the inner alpine musical tradition to America and about the question whether one can score a hit in such a multicultural country. That there is an audience for this kind of music stood firm.

And what is your conclusion?

You see, we often have the feeling that our tradition (in this case music) is worthless in its own country. If it comes for instance from Africa, it is a world hit. Everything shifts itself. And therefore it was clear to me that our traditional music also has a clientele over the pond.

After the Alpinkatzen, 1994, you announced that you did not want to appear anymore. Why? You were very successful with this music.

That is exactly it. I simply did not want to be reduced to the Alpinkatzen and Hiatamadl image any more. What had always annoyed me was that the press has written: Hubert von Goisern gives up. I had only said that I will not go on stage with the Alpinkatzen any more and I would have a two year creative break. I could not have foreseen that it would become six years.

You composed the film music for Joseph Vilsmaier's Schlafes Bruder and appeared in front of the camera yourself in Jo Baier's film, Hölleisengretl. Was that only an outing into another field?

Not the film making. I have added a soundtrack to five films in total. But the acting was just like an outing. One could also say that I wanted to try it out once, to see whether I can do it.

And in your opinion, could you?

In the film, I had to play a bastard. And since this role really did not comply with my nature, it was also accordingly difficult for me. But it would really appeal to me to stand in front of the camera again, although in a happy role. I would not have to change so much.

If one reads your biography, one can't help describing you as an open-minded thinker. In your hometown Bad Goisern at least, you were not even welcome in the town brass band because of your would-be revolutionary play. Do you always do exactly the opposite of what others do or expect of you?

At that time I was no more contrary than today. It is much more the exploration of "blank areas". I mean it really interests me, why people do something or go somewhere. But the real thing is: what happens after that? Perhaps this curiosity, this desire to discover depends on my creativity. But there is nothing more fascinating than a taboo. That is an area of conflict and without it, I could not compose or sing.

After you had got to know the exiled Tibetan Tseten in 1996, you concerned yourself with the Tibetans for two years. You even got to know the Dalai Lama. To what extent have you been influenced by this meeting with another culture and another religion?

It was rather a confirmation of what I already knew. That we can't see past our own noses. There, people have something of which we always dream: they lead a really happy life. Above all the nonviolence impressed me. But with us there is an enormous potential for aggression. It is not so there.

So have you only had fun and pleasure with your creative work?

No, not at all. You know, it is just a great difference whether you are a guest or working. As a guest, you are always king and one always takes trouble to stay friendly. If one is at work, like I am here, then conflict appears. Two cultures bounce off each other. Now and then you have to dig deep into your reserves. Also you do not give anything away. That's how it is with us. Each one holds his own opinion and somewhere tries to get it all together. Figuratively speaking naturally. But you get involved with it.

The two CDs Gombe and Inexil, which you presented in the Austrian parliament, emerged from this. And could you achieve with this the attention you wished for?

This presentation took place at a meeting closed to the public. As far as I can remember, there was nobody there apart from two journalists. And in connection with Tibet, what bothered me was that our government refused to see what was happening in Tibet. Only because they expected trade orders from the Chinese. It is just the same with Africa. We only know Africa because of sickness, misery and poverty. But the government buys commodities for next to nothing. Quite simply what gets on my nerves today is the way politicians contemplate their navels.

On your newest work which is called Trad, there are only your best loved folk songs. Without a dulcimer, without a harp and again you only sing in dialect. Wouldn't HvG in English be a challenge?

I don't think so. Neither is it HvG when he sings in High German. That would be much too dramatic. The message does not come across so easily.

Does that mean that you still make honest music?

Please, what is meant by honest music? Personally, I don't know any other way of doing it. And I must say about other people's music, that if I can identify any person who is not at one with what he is singing, the music goes in one ear and out of the other. Then that for me is not honest.

Do you think that your music is ahead of its time?

I really cannot say. Years ago, I wanted to make futuristic music. I experimented a lot with it. But sometime I knew, Hubert you are in the here and now. So I make music for the here and now. Also I don't have the need to communicate with some next generation. My music is tradition. And tradition is something like a spring. The river comes from it and finally the sea. If my music can contribute to it in some small part, to flow into a river then that is incredibly beautiful. But I am not thinking about that now.

Hubert doesn't stop yodelling

Weltbild February 2001 | Text: Peter Hummel | Photos: Aldo Acquadro

The Austrian composer, lyricist and singer Hubert von Goisern turns back to the stage.
And he will turn the new folk music upside down again.

Hubert von GoisernBongo the dog must like music, his comfort blanket lies in the acoustic intersection of countless instruments. In a studio in Salzburg, no doorplate. In the middle of it, drums, guitars, pianos, at least three Styrian accordions. Hubert von Goisern, Bongo's master, is on the telephone. "Since the new CD has been on the market, the telephone hasn't stopped ringing," he says, "it's madness."

Hubert von Goisern, who is really called Hubert Achleitner, was born in Bad Goisern in the Dachstein area, and is someone already stood the folk music scene on its head with his sounds at the start of the 90s. In 1994 his hit Hiatamadl was at least as popular as Anton aus Tirol is today. After that Hubert von Goisern had a six year break which he used for journeys to Tibet and Africa, "because I had to set myself free from the old Hubert," he says. Now he turns back to the stage with Fön, and the experts agree: "Goisern will be the number 1 of folk music again."

The CD released in November will shortly be awarded with platinum and the tour in March and April was sold out almost everywhere within a few days.

When Hubert von Goisern plays his Styrian accordion, Bongo lies down on his back and wants to be stroked. Only then does he allow an interview.

Are you still recognised by people on the street?

Yes, there are always some who summon up the courage and ask, "Is it really you?"

Or do they say: "Ah, that's the one who's ....

.... called Hubert von Goisern

Admit it, people who say, "He's the one who sang Hiatamadl"

I hope not. I can't listen to it anymore. I really can't.

Do you not listen to your earlier songs any more?

As soon as I have finished them, I never listen to my own things any more.

And if a song plays on the radio?

Then I only listen to a few bars. It is much worse if I am invited to someone's house and they think they must do me a favour and put on my CD.

So you are playing no old hits when you go on tour shortly.

Certainly not.

The music on Fön is quite different from everything that you have made until now. For me it also needs getting used to. Are you not being rather mean towards the fans if you refuse them the old hits?

You underestimate the public. Like many radio presenters, you believe that people have a very small common denominator and are only going to the concert because of my old things. That really isn't the case.

Nevertheless: what do you do if the fans call for the Hiatamadl during a concert.

Then I will say that I can't play it any more.

Can't or don't want to?

Both. But above all, I can't any more. I would even have to learn all the lyrics again.

Before, you were known as an "Alpine Rocker". What are you now? An alpine singer-songwriter? An alpine poet?

I would not put my music under one collective term. I am Hubert and I make my music. Besides, today I am more Hubert than I was ten years ago, because today I make much more personal music and I don't let myself be influenced by anyone.

Do you take the term "folk music" positively or negatively?

Positively. A term which brings expresses a regional colour. Music which no longer has any regional relationship is something very cleverly constructed. A beautiful melody affects us because it is attached to something familiar to us.

You don't contradict me if I say that you are a folk musician?

Quite on the contrary: that is an honour for me. You can only be a folk musician if what you do is accepted by the people.

Marianne and Michael are also folk musicians and are accepted by the people. But the music from Fön has not been lost in Musikantenstadl.

In Musikantenstadl, folksy music is also played, which is a bigger difference and what schlager comes closer to than folk music. That is not my thing.

Have you something against people who watch Heimatmelodie?

No, for Heaven's sake, they ought to. I only find it shame that this kind of music has such a forum with the stations. Today not even normal pop has as much room on TV as all these schlager shows.

Is there a record shop in Goisern?

There has not been one for a long time, but now one has opened again.

And your CD will certainly be sold there.

I have not been there for a long time, but I suppose that the disc represents a significant part of the turnover.

Hubert von GoisernBad Goisern certainly has you to thank for its own popularity. What are you considered as there? Star? Nutcase?

For a long time I have been considered rather a nutcase there. Only with the great success it did not hold any more. Today they quite like me.

Which place is your home?

I feel at home according to sensitivities. I can feel very at home in my studio, in my little house in Goisern, in Salzburg where I have lived for ten years.

Is home something different from homeland?

For me, homeland is a concept that primarily has something to do with origin, with familiarity. Many people describe a place as their homeland that is indeed familiar to them, but where they do not feel happy. For me, homeland is a feeling that comes from inside and doesn't pour in from outside. I was abroad for seven years and always had the feeling of being at home there.

In Africa too?

Rather more in Canada, because with one's European appearance, one can slip through as a Canadian. In Africa it is difficult because as an Austrian, one can't be an African.

Were you ever homesick?

There is longing that can emerge: the longing for mountains. In Toronto for miles around there were no mountains that you could climb in order to look at everything from above.

The CN tower there is 553m high.

Great, but no compensation. Even if one doesn't take the lift, but takes the stairs.

How did you describe Goisern to people abroad?

A small village in which many play music, where there are lots of nice people and where, as everywhere, there are some twits.

Jörg Haider also comes from Goisern. Have you ever met?

Not knowingly. He went away when he was 18 and I was 15 at that time.

Do you want to meet?

He stands quite far down the list of people that I would like to meet. People who have talked to him have told me that he always gives someone the feeling of being their friend. He is a chameleon. He will say what he believes you would like to hear. In the next moment, when he is talking to someone else, he will say exactly the opposite because the person opposite him has a different opinion.

Do you like being Austrian?

I am one all the same, whether I like it or not. The denial of your own tradition and origin makes as little sense as raising it up on a pedestal and saying, "look what we have made".

It is said that it was your wife who pushed you back on stage. Did you become a madman at home who didn't known how to do anything any more?

A reason why I stopped back then was that there was no more family life with us. During my best time, I was at home for one month in the year. Now my wife though that everything was good again and I must go out.

Can it be that you have become calmer in the past years?

I can only laugh about that. I have only learned to show peace.

More critical?

And more tolerant.

More ambitious?

No, braver. And more mature? And more trusting? And older? Why don't you ask me whether I have become better?

Have you become better?

Yes.

Unusual place, unusual music

OÖN 16th September 2000 | Text: Reinhold Gruber

Hubert von Goisern presents his new album Fön in the shadow of Sonnblick

The usual was never Hubert von Goisern's thing. The Austrian pioneer of the unusual mixture of folk and rock music loves it out of the ordinary. So this week he presented his new CD Fön, available on 6th November 2000 in the shadow of Sonnblick at 2200m in the middle of the breathtaking mountain world. OÖN was at the party and conquering of the peak with Hubert von Goisern.

There where Tauerngold was once mined and where today ruins are silent witnesses to a past hustle and bustle, two speaker towers are standing above the Neubauhütte. The disbelieving looks of the hikers passing by get more intense as people sit down in front of the speakers, with only one thing in mind: to listen to music.

They have come because Hubert von Goisern has called from the mountains to celebrate the completion of his new album. For the trouble of the sweat-making climb everyone will be rewarded with something to listen to that, apart from the producers, only six people have heard before. Fön, the new album, "premiered" in an environment which the quality of the music distinctly raised yet more.

Fön is shaped by a musical brilliance which is reflected in sensitive arrangements and perfect production. Hubert yodels, covers Joplin (Mercedes Benz), plays with Caribbean rhythms in order to philosophise about events, to describe conditions in a thoughtful countermove. He is authentic, unaffected, honest, open to attack.

Why Fön? "Why will a song be this way and no other?" Hubert von Goisern answers with a counter question in the evening OÖN interview in the Neubauhütte, in order to then be more concrete. "Certain things come easily. In the moment where I wrestle for something, ideas come in order to dissolve this feeling that I have and it was Fön then." And more: "Fön is a condition for me that is not dissimilar to the very intense and artistic work of creativity. It is a considerable pressure. It is a great clarity. Things appear to be much closer than they are in reality. And it is actually a beautiful condition, only you must endure it. One must be doing well, because then if you are already ill, you have headaches, or you can't lie down because your circulation is not good. The feeling is similar if you write a song. It is sometimes quite clear and close and you think, super, it must be exactly so. But then you go an eternally long way and if you had known, you would have done something quite different. But I actually really value these conditions."

Desire for the stage

The fact that six years lie between the end of the Alpinkatzen and the new album has to do with the fact that Hubert von Goisern met so many exciting people in the meantime. But after his film music for Schlafes Bruder, the CD with the Leoganger children and world music albums from Tibet and Africa, he was conscious in the past year of the desire to write songs "without consideration for traditions" and also the desire to go on stage again. That will happen in March next year (2001) when Hubert plans a tour with his band.

Beforehand, he has no more time to fill up with power as with the climb to 3102m Sonnblick on the day after the CD celebration. "Now we must practise a lot," he says. And from November, he will have to say yet more about Fön. Because on the mountain were only friends and those who believe in him.

Tight rope walk

Live in Concert March 2001 | Text: A.E. | Photo: Virgin Musik

Bongo and HubertIt was six years ago that Hubert von Goisern and his Alpinkatzen split from the stage. At that time, the giant from Austrian Bad Goisern stood at the height of his fame. No wonder then, that the public said goodbye to the king of alpine rock with astonishment and regret. And now the comeback is much more fun. Whoever expected that the innovator of folk music would carry on where he gave up, does not know him. "I want to go away from rock. For a long time it was fun, always shouting out with energy and sweat and merciless playing to the front. But now I really want to work more finely." The stage free years with journeys into film (Schlafes Bruder) and musically fertile stays in Tibet and Africa (a CD each) left their traces. The musician's new music sounds subtler. Soul, reggae and jazz elements are to be found on his album Fön and on the new CD Trad, the singer and composer processes his alpine traditions in individual tunes. Hubert met his musicians in the interim projects. "We are really looking forward to going on stage and to really playing. In the studio you have an unbelievably concentrated work, where you try a lot out until you just move onto the next."

The lyrics on Fön testify to the tight rope walk between longing for sensuality and security on one hand and inevitable pain on the other hand. "The six years have really sensitised me," says the writer and singer. "One of the reasons for giving up was that I just really seemed to be desensitised, and I noticed how I lost my footing. If the red carpet is rolled out every day and people are cheering before you have played a note, you just seem peculiar to yourself." He does not need to have this worry for the moment. The laurels are not fully withered, but he must probably newly earn the goodwill of the public again.

Rock with alpine background

Nordbayerische Zeitung 14th December 2000 | Text: Philipp Roser

Hubert von Goisern prefers dialect on Fön

Five years ago, Hubert von Goisern disbanded the Alpinkatzen and concentrated on film music (Schlafes Bruder). He undertook journeys to Tibet and Africa which afterwards he interpreted musically. "In this time, four CDs were released!" said the Austrian, who has Franconian ancestors.

"I am someone who likes to show what happens if one goes round a bend as soon as one has the right speed - I don't just have fun letting off, but going full speed in deep snow and unknown territory.

The alpine rocker with the accordion has called his new album Fön. With this he reflects on the one hand on the influences with which Eric Clapton, Van Morrison, Sting, George Benson or the Beatles once provided him; on the other hand, he transports you into the present where he lets his alpine cultural background pour in and create such individual moods and full bodied songs.

Here Goisern sings with an even stronger dialect than before. "I wanted to write the melodies and lyrics so that they would be singable I noticed when I listened to my old songs from a distance, that I had not yet managed to shape the lyrics so that I could make the most of the curve of the melody." That had become one of the most urgent tasks that he set himself. "I needed the appropriate lyrics and the vowels in the right place. That is also the reason why more than before I have written lyrics in dialect, because for me, High German has too many consonants. It always seems very dramatic when I sing in High German.

"The most personal music I have ever made"

AZ 24th October 2000

Folk rocker Hubert von Goisern comes to the city

(kbl) Actually he is called Hubert Achleitner, his fans rather know him under the name "Hubert von Goisern". With Hiatamadl, the musician from Salzkammergut once left concert halls shaking; he provided atmosphere with wild alpine yodelling and rocky folk music. After six years away from the stage, now he comes to Augsburg.

Blue sky, October sun, the hustle and bustle of people - at the Rathausplatz, Hubert Achleitner obviously feels happy. Relaxed, the thoroughbred musician stretches out his legs and orders with relish a portion of "veal sausage, but with lots of mustard, please". Relaxation in between, that must be. At present, von Goisern has all sorts of things on his plate: his new album Fön comes onto the market 6th November, early next year (2001), he goes on tour through Germany and Austria as well as Switzerland.

And Augsburg is also on the tourplan of the so called "folk rocker". On Saturday 4th April 2001, he will thrill the public in the Kongresshalle with a roughly three hour programme. Then among other things there is also music from his new CD to listen to.

Hubert von Goisern is looking forward to to the Fugger city, where he stands not for the first time on stage, because "I don't have the feeling that the Augsburgers are a restrained audience."

What does he want to offer them? "The most personal music I have ever made." As he thinks of his new CD Fön. But the listeners should also have room for their own impressions. "A composition is like a house. If it is so full that you can only look at it from the outside, then it has missed its target."

Film music and journeys

Hubert von Goisern has not been on stage since 1994. Instead, he wrote film music, got to know Tanzania and Tibet. The time out was also useful for his family. Now his wife has pushed him back onto the stage again as he explains with a wink. No problem for him, it is already clear to him today: "I'm looking forward to Augsburg."

"Dialect is a direct form of expression"

Stuttgarter Nachrichten 12th March 2001

Hubert von Goisern plays with his band in Hegelsaal today

His songs performed in the Goisern dialect are anything but mainstream and rarely come onto the radio. Nevertheless, Hubert von Goisern managed, together with his Alpinkatzen, to gain a true fan community. After six years abstinence from the stage, the 47 year old Austrian from Bad Goisern goes on tour again with his recently released fourth album Fön. Today he appears at Hegelsaal at 8pm. The event is sold out, but for the 4th October, an additional concert has been called for. Marko Schacher talks to Hubert von Goisern. He met the pleasant alpine rocker during his promotional tour.

Mr von Goisern, your new CD Fön sounds very relaxed ...

I have never yet had a production that has happened so harmoniously. That probably comes through in listening to it. There was no-one who had specified a definite point in time for me to be ready. It was completely my personal wish, to write a programme with which I could go on tour again.

You write your lyrics in High German and translate them subsequently into your dialect - how does that work?

This time I did not actually know in which language I would sing. With one number, there was an English version. Then I thought: No, I live here in a German speaking cultural area and make music for the people amongst whom I live. When you bring lyrics to paper, you automatically write in High German. There is really no fixed form for how you write dialect.

Why do you sing in dialect?

The High German language has mainly consonants and they are unsuitable as a transport medium for a sound. Whoever sings rhythmically can save something there. In order to enjoy the sound to the full however, you need vowels and they are significantly more strongly represented in dialect. In addition to this, the dialect is a more direct form of expression. High German always sounds dramatic to me.

Nevertheless, there are artists like Xavier Naidoo or Die Fantastischen Vier ....

I like Die Fantastischen Vier - their music and lyrics are one of the most important lyrical innovations in the German speaking countries. That is however, rhythmical emphatic speech song - there High German works quite well. Also Udo Lindenberg or Herbert Grönemeyer can sing this language. However, they have their own tic to sing - that is just not really High German any more.

Hasn't your record company ever suggested a change to High German?

It's right that the dialect makes it difficult for a number of people who don't come from this language area. On the other hand, I played in Paris, Denmark, Texas and New York at the beginning of the 90s, and the music always worked. Music is a language that works non-verbally. If you want to know what the lyrics actually mean, you find out. There are translation helps in the CD booklet. Many words are simply just pronounced and stressed differently. At some point, the ears tune in.

Before this tour, you had not been on the stage for six years. Were you nervous before the first concert?

The first years, I was really ill before every appearance - it wasn't just proverbial stage fright, but something measurable. But with time, I noticed that nothing really bad can happen except that you let yourself down. This time I was very nervous, but the anticipation is bigger than the worry that something could go badly.

Your next plans?

I have already begun with the production of the next CD. I would also wish that I also receive an exciting offer as an actor. For a really good film, I would give up a year of music too. Together with a friend, I have written a screenplay about the journey of a person to their roots, that I would really like to put into action. But with such stories, you are dependent on many factors.

"I am not in favour of the standard grey for pop"

AZ 20th November 2000 | Text: Andreas Radlmaier

Six years, half an eternity in showbusiness, he has been away from the stage, he sent the Alpinkatzen into an early retirement, made records with Tibetan and African musicians and soundtracks for Schlafes Bruder and the children's film Ein Sack voller Lügen. Now, Hubert von Goisern, the remoulder, is back again. Fön is the "very personal" and very good album that is already taking complete artistic freedom with the spelling of the title. By no account does it mean hairdryer. Early next year (2001) the man from Bad Goisern at the foot of the Dachstein glacier goes on tour again with his accordion. Also to Franconia, where Nuremberg's retired SPD hope, Renate Schmidt is an honorary member of the fanclub. We talk with Hubert Achleitner, his civil name, in Nuremberg.

The Alpinkatzen were purring along beautifully. Why did you put the brakes on ?

I don't like the word "brakes". OK, I am certainly one who likes to look at what happens if one takes a bend going along at good speed.

To test the position of the bend?

Yes, exactly. I am not someone who only has fun schussing in order to stay in the picture.

But loves to be in full swing.

And adventure.

So, deep snow.

Uncharted territory, yes.

What traces have the Alpinkatzen left behind?

With the distance I gained, I got to know my weaknesses. The fact that I had not yet managed to form the lyrics in such a way that I can enjoy the melody lines to the full. That was one of the most urgent tasks that I set myself. To do that, I need the right lyrics and the right vocals and the right place. That is also the reason why I write in dialect even more than before. In High German, pathos always resonates.

Hubert von GoisernIs the strengthened profession of dialect also an act of defiance against the general trend?

If you must sing in a foreign language in order to find listeners, then you can take to dialect without further ado.

Is the cause of it also the appeal of finding the exotic in the neighbourhood?

I work together with Tibetan and African musicians, set Tibetan lyrics and Kisuaheli lyrics to music. You just get the feeling that you can also stand by your own exoticism. I am not in favour of standard grey for everything that we are hearing in pop music.

The Haider quotations in Kålt are still incomprehensible.

A good composition is like a house, which you enter as a listener. Which also makes it possible, for you to go into your own rooms of the subconscious, of impressions and feelings. With Kålt it was the swing to the right in Austria, and this coldness of the climate that was the trigger. And it was clear to me that I did not want to get actual words, but wanted to find a form that would show the hollow words of these demagogic politicians as siren songs. And that is why I do not sing any concrete lyrics either. I found it more exciting to take indiscriminate quotations from Jörg Haider and to encode them.

The different handling of rhythm is clear. Astonishingly, reggae is compatible with alpine country.

It was already quite clear to me, that that is the case. Basically, it is only the reverse of our rhythmic perception. Instead of downright wrong, wrong downright. The version of Mercedes Benz was something I wanted to do, seven, eight years ago. It did not happen. The musicians could not play it with any feeling. It always became rocky. That finished me. Now I have looked for musicians who can translate that.

There is also a late love for jazz.

That is down to the common ground that jazz, blues and folk music have. All three kinds of music have a strong component of improvisation. That was also something I wanted to do. I want to blow up the diatonic framework that the accordion simply dictates. That then sounds jazzy, although it is the same.

The expression that your music is "Blut für die urbane Dekadenz" (sic) ("blood for the urban decadence") comes from you.

That is from a song.

Sounds serious, like a mission.

It was less a mission than vision. That was at a time where folk music, as I had interpreted it, was also an absolute taboo. Basically it happened. I believe that the surrounding countryside, the province, is coming closer to the town. Not just closer with technology, but also musically. What is fascinating is: when I am in Goisern, I can't think of anything. Those are the most uninspiring surroundings that I can imagine. There I feel happy and can find strength, but I never have the need to add something. While in an urban surrounding one puts the breaking points into words.

With Fön, or rather Föhn, one thinks of mountain air or headaches.

Föhn is an extreme state. Lots of people suffer under it. But Föhn describes a creative process. Beautiful weather, but quite a pressure that one must also stand up to. That is like composing.